TAKE THE "Z" TRAIN

An Interview with Jazz Label Impresario Francis Dreyfus

It often takes one charismatic and individualistic visionary to guide a great Jazz label. The list is long: Manfred Eicher of ECM comes to mind. Bruce Lundvall guides Blue Note Records. Tommy LiPuma helms today's Verve Label Group. Matt Balitsaris directs the young Palmetto label. And there's many, many more—too numerous to name. Here's an interview we did with Francis Dreyfus, the founder of the well-respected Dreyfus Jazz label. Dreyfus is one of those labels you pay extra attention to. Whether it's a new Roy Haynes Fountain of Youth CD, or an exciting 1994 concert featuring the late Michel Petrucciani, Marcus Miller, Lenny White, Kenny Garrett, and Bireli Lagrene, it's time to lean in and listen hard. We spoke to Monsieur Dreyfus by phone at his offices in France.

K. Zimmerman: Whenever we receive a new record on the Dreyfus Jazz label, we know instinctively that it's going to be a very special release.

Francis Dreyfus: Something will happen. That's my goal. I'm sure you realize there are thousands of very good Jazz musicians all over the world. I am more interested in personality, the way they play, the touch of their fingers on the piano, the sound of the saxophone, and where they go for improvisation. That mixture of everything gives me the feeling of a real artist.

You run a label and you're also a consummate fan who loves to buy jazz records.

I am a groupie of Jazz, not an artist. For me I'm so disappointed when I buy a recording and it's not what I imagine. If it's a record that is so-so, I don't keep the recording at home. I give it away to somebody. I am not a collector of CDs. When I put a CD in the machine, I want to travel with them and imagine a lot of things. It's an internal journey. You are part of the process as the listener. Buying a record is like buying a painting or any piece of art. This creation does not belong to the artist anymore. It belongs to me.

How do you work with established artists on your label like Roy Haynes or Ahmad Jamal?

I give them advice, but with Ahmad Jamal, you don't say anything. You're so happy that he's agreed to be with you. I was very pleased because it was through a label called Birdology. They called me and loved my artists and what I was doing. Ahmad Jamal knew what we were doing, and we're a really great connection. For me, it's a dream to have Ahmad Jamal on my label. We launched the In Search of...Momentum release with a concert in front of 2000 people in a place called Theatre de Champs de Elyses. It was so marvelous, people were crying. I prefer when he plays trio, but you have to be very cautious when you're talking to a genius. In Europe he's huge, and he means a lot to European people.

What are your memories of Ahmad's Olympia 2000 record? That's still one of the finest live albums we've heard in years.

It was a fantastic concert. The difference between that show and the Theatre de Champs Elyses concerts. One was a quartet with George Coleman and the other was his trio. The head of an important Jazz monthly in France said the same thing. I think the record is the exact duplication of the venue. In the venue you feel the intensity of the audience.

Roy Haynes' Te Vou! project on your label is another landmark for Dreyfus.

That was the first record Roy made for the company. We were talking with him by phone. I had seen him in Paris. He said it would be his first record for my company. It's a brilliant recording.

You've spread the Dreyfus Jazz sound around the world.

We have a network of independent distributors everywhere in Europe, and territories like Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Greece, and so on. Jazz is a living language, and my big fight after all these years is to tell the media that Jazz is the classical music of the 21st century, not cha-cha-cha Jazz. If you don't understand that, you are not in the real world. We know the window for this kind of music on the radio is very narrow. We have to go to the daily and weekly newspapers too. They are important. The difficulties today is getting the record in the shops, as the market is quite narrow and we cannot spend lots of money marketing Jazz. Every time there is a very successful Jazz recording, it helps all the other artists, also. Actually in the Jazz section in France you have Norah Jones. People who like Jazz are sophisticated adults over the age of 35 and they have the money to spend. All over Europe, the most important concert tickets are Jazz and classical before pop music. In Europe we have more than 750 Jazz festivals. You have more than 350 Jazz festivals in France alone. That's why some people think France is such a center of Jazz for the world. When they see that Norah Jones has won a lot of Grammies in the States, the French thinks it's normal because it's Jazz. But they don't realize Jazz is not as successful in the States.

Jean-Michel Pilc is a forceful pianist. His music is like a whirlwind.

The trio recording is a little, as you said, forceful. But his new record is different. He's above simple technique. He's able to play what he has in his mind. He has no limits with the instrument. His technique is perfect, and because of that, he has a style. To me he's a great composer. His latest record, Cardinal Points, is fantastic. He's starting to be really appreciated in Europe, and his first recording was a big success in France. He toured all the big clubs in Germany and made a big impact there. He's on the radio and gets a lot of press. He is the new guy for me, but a lot of musicians respect him.

Tell us about Rosario Guiliani, the hot alto sax player on your label.

I'll tell you a story. When I opened the jazz label in 1991, of course people in France thought I was crazy. It was just after the revival of Jazz after the new technology of the CD. We had a rebirth of Jazz. When I first started the label a lot of musicians came to see me and wanted to sign with me. Of course, I had an idea based on my tastes. I think I have very popular tastes. I like art and music, but I don't like things that are not fantastic. It was difficult signing my first artist. I tried to sign Jackie McLean, but it was too complicated. Too much show biz for me. Then I heard a tape of a saxophone player through a friend of mine. Who is that? I was mad about it and I found out it was Steve Grossman. My first record was with Steve Grossman. The guy is a genius, and people knew who he was all over Europe. But some people were thinking he was dead at the time because he had past problems. The record we made with him was a big success. At the time I felt I had my sax player. Why would I want to find another one? Then I signed a guitar player, Michel Petrucciani, Marcus Miller (who I worked with when he was seventeen through my friend, manager Patrick Raines). Through all that time I had still not found a trumpet player. I had Bireli Lagrene and Philip Catherine on guitar. Every time I looked out for an alto player, I was disappointed. Nothing special was out there. After working with Steve Grossman, I asked him to find me an alto player. He gave me one name—Rosario Guiliani, a guy living in Rome. I called the guy and he told me that he had just sent a fax to Dreyfus Jazz in New York. Rosario assumed that Dreyfus Jazz was an American country and I was calling in response to his fax. They love Rosario in Italy and the UK, and he's gaining a big name in France.

Guiliani is an amazing player.

I told him sometimes he has too much energy for me. I tell him relax, relax, relax. His first CD is very good, but his second one is even better.

You still haven't found your trumpet player? Erik Truffaz is a great player from France.

Truffaz was doing some recording and jumped into techno because of the success of this guy who is not a Jazz musician named St. Germaine. Erik is into techno Jazz. Personally, I'm not interested. That's the new way of Jazz? What happened? You had one track with Germaine and a few groups of guys doing techno Jazz, but they're not really jazz musicians. They play synthesizers, and in my opinion, it's nothing special. You hear it in the clubs, and people think it's great and it's the new direction because people don't know exactly what it is. Hip-hop or techno. Truffaz plays well, but I'm not a fan. Nothing special for me.

What are your memories of Michel Petrucciani? You guided his career for quite a few years.

Marvelous guy. He worked a lot. He played piano three hours a day. He had terrific technique. He was in a very curious position in the States when we signed him. I had the feeling that close to the end of his life, a lot of musicians had much respect for him and finally realized how great he was. Of course he was a number one Jazz musician in Europe, in terms of popularity, total records, and the price of his concerts. We reached up to a quarter of a million of some of his records. He regularly sold 100 or 200,000 records, which is a lot for Europe. I remember he played 23 concerts in a month. Every show was packed. When I first met Ahmad Jamal, he loved Michel's music. Michel did not speak too much about Ahmad because, to him, he was a genius. I am very happy because I have a nice picture of Ahmad Jamal and Michel Petrucciani in my office.

With so many American labels trimming their artist rosters, does that give you room to sign more acts?

Everybody comes to me and knows we are doing better. That means that when you are with Dreyfus it is a good Jazz product and now we have this reputation that when an artist signs with us, the manager is assured to have at least 20 dates across Europe. A lot of people realize that now. We are tasteful people. We work and work every day. Of course we have people knocking at the door, but my problem is that I don't want people knocking at the door. I want to go out and find people. If it's people with a reputation, like when Roy Haynes signed with me, and I was sure it was great music, it gave us good publicity.

What did you do in Jazz before the formation of the Dreyfus label?

I represented a lot of Jazz composers through a publishing company I've had since 1963. In 1969 I started a label and had a worldwide success with Oxygene by Jean Michel Jarre. I sold 12 million records. In 1978 I opened Discos Dreyfus. The Jazz label was started at the end of 1991. From 1963, I represented a lot of artists through my publishing company including Benny Golson, Dexter Gordon, Milt Jackson, and Marcus Miller.

So you have a lot of faith in the younger players like Pilc and Guiliani.

We're happy with Ahmad Jamal's records and the Lucky Peterson is working very well. Bireli LaGrene's Gypsy Projects are working well and he tours America very successfully. If the American Jazz audiences can discover Jean-Michel Pilc, who is currently living in New York, they will be astonished. Richard Galliano the accordionist is a big artist for us, too. The Mingus Big Band tours all over Europe, but big band CDs are difficult to sell. We move very hard with three people who are young, Jean-Michel Pilc, guitarist Sylvain Luc, and Rosario Guiliani. Those three young guys are really fantastic.